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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 547 for the 14th of April

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2019 reach its owners here with you back

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in Sydney Australia and the weather's

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getting slightly cooler April is a funny

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month it's hilarious you never know what

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to expect in April part of you thinks

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autumn you know winter's coming things

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should be cooling down then suddenly BAM

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it'll hit you with a hot muggy day maybe

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I should call this show The Skeptical

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weather zone hmm coming up on this

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week's show the return of may not may

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not spooky action may not heads to

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skeptics in the pub here in Sydney just

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last week and asks the big question to

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pub is what should skeptics now give up

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what's been done to death what's dead

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wood what what topics should we just no

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longer bother with in the skeptical

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organisation or are there any I mean

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personally I love the classics I always

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have the ESP and the monsters and all

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that sort of stuff but everybody has an

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opinion on this it seems may not finds

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out then may not interviews the guest

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speaker on the night Carey Doherty who

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gave a talk about the dish the dish was

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not the whole story now the dish she

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refers to is the radio telescope or the

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communications device here in Australia

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Parkes in fact in New South Wales that

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was instrumental in Apollo missions

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communicating with the astronauts and

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I'm sorry I missed this talk it sounds

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absolutely fascinating Australia's

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involvement in space exploration

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following that I catch up with Tim

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Mendham who we hear of frequently in the

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skeptic sonam often reading bits and

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pieces from press releases or articles

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from Tim Menem the editor of the skeptic

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magazine the journal from Australian

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skeptics I chat to Tim about his recent

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experiences visiting the

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mind/body/spirit or as we love to call

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it everybody all together mind by

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the wallet now this is the festival

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every six months here in Sydney and in

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other parts of the country the way you

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can feast on whoo of every shape and

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description from psychics to new

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energies to things like Reiki and

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alternative health in general

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it's all there folks and Tim will report

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on his recent visit and reflections on

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visiting that 30 years ago and if you

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remember last week on the skeptic zone I

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read out a report from the skeptic

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magazine where Tim Minden visited the

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mind/body/spirit the first one here in

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Sydney in 1989 then to round off the

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show a story from New Zealand about

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psychic detectives well either that's

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that's a weird term psychic detectives

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because personally I don't think there

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are any psychics so they cannot by

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definition be psychic detectives to my

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thinking but it's easier to say psychic

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detective then to say people who claim

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to have psychic powers and think they're

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detectives

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now during this episode you'll hear some

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very exciting news about the upcoming

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Australian skeptics convention which is

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to be held in Melbourne in December this

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year very exciting news news that will

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make you want to book your ticket as

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soon as they become available but until

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that announcement comes up you'll just

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have to wonder what it is well I think

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most of you know anyway but anyway but

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now it's time for me to run downstairs

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and um let me have I know I know I'm

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going to get a nice big salad yes a nice

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some corn and lettuce and lettuce a bit

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of a broccoli and I saw a thing called a

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cabbage and I like vegetables what can I

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say I even like Brussels sprouts mix

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that together with a little bit of a

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little bit of olive oil mixed in was a

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bit of sesame oil which is delicious and

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a little bit of wasabi mixed in with

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that poured all over the salad add a bit

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of tuna hmm while I do that I hope you

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enjoy the skeptic zone

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his may not spooky action at a distance

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see that how about behind me that's the

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noise obstetrics of the pub here the

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Occidental hotel is when you in Sydney

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may not hear cup reporter may not hear

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you're Jimmy Olsen of the sceptic zone

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of course Richard Saunders is the lowest

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lane of the skeptic zone although it

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does have Clark Kent's glasses I do

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believe we'll be asking people tonight

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what should skip fix give up you've got

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to choose your battles of course but you

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also got to choose the battles you don't

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have so what is it about time skeptics

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gave away but the neckbeard that's one

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thing certain facial hair affectations

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another thing some of the suits from the

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70s probably give them up but there's a

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few other things to be giving away and

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I'll be asking people what should we

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give up as well as talking to our guests

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tonight is all about Australia's part in

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the space program what we did the real

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story of the dish all that sort up that

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will be coming your way tonight skeptics

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of the pub as people are rushing rushing

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and flushing here to get some skepticism

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in we need Sydney what do you think it's

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time for skeptics to give away so they

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can concentrate on other stuff I think

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it's time to give away them the worrying

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about the moon hoax because you're never

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going to change the minds of some of

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them have you ever tried to do that

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personally or online yes I have and I

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was successful in a couple of cases but

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clearly they hadn't been they hadn't

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been converted enough to the you know to

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the hoax belief but I've also I have

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also been very unsuccessful in trying to

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convert other people they just lost

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sleep over the years

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no I haven't lost sleep over it but I

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thought you'd be up late doing this kind

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of thing you see oh I know I'm sure your

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conscience wasn't but that is all but

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it's the time it takes yeah well this is

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true yeah yeah what do you reckon

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skeptic should maybe give up the

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concentrate on something more productive

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should give people a break on Bigfoot

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look if people want to search for

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Bigfoot if they want to go camping but

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for a bush walk you know I don't know

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set up their tent toast some

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marshmallows and maybe see Bigfoot like

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is that the worst hobby in the world if

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it's getting people out you know doing

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some exercise exploring like maybe

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that's okay maybe just let them search

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for Bigfoot I don't think they're gonna

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find Bigfoot but I'm happy to let them

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keep looking you feel the same way about

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our local Yowie I think so I just want

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that to be true though all of the

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Australian things wouldn't it be so good

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if we did have Panthers in the Blue

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Mountains like I'm not saying I think we

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have palaces in the Blue Mountains but

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I'd love it if we had Panthers in the

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gloom Alice people are certainly saying

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seeing something or they're saying

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they're seeing something on a regular

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basis aren't they I've heard that and

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again all I'm gonna say is that I wish

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it was true yeah of course everybody

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thinks we should give up something to

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concentrate on something else here's a

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guy who thinks that now give it up

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nothing not not one foot back not one

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inch back take no prisoners yeah well I

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hate being wrong and I hate other people

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being wrong and I find III I don't well

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I don't think you can you should

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necessarily give up on one one thing

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that's that's untrue to focus on other

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things because we can probably do a lot

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of it or maybe all of it

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I definitely you should focus most on

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the things that are directly harmful

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like anti vaccination

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activism and some of the more harmful

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alternative medications like black Sal

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but few things are as futile as an

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argument on Facebook really I mean it's

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worse than fashion oh you're not gonna

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get much you must lose a lot of sleep by

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staying up late going you are wrong no

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you are wrong no see that's the

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difference I think you don't do the

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voice no I you are wrong no I I think

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that the the topics we should we should

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we shouldn't pick and choose topics for

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skepticism necessarily but methods of

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argument definitely I don't think

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arguing on Facebook is ever particularly

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helpful i I do a lot of arguing on

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Twitter but that's also on it's

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unhelpful but more fun I think what I've

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been a bit of a centrist here now what's

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your opinion on this what should what

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should we be given up to concentrate on

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something useful give up to concentrate

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on something useful I don't think you

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can really change people's minds on

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anything but people want to be right on

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that absolutely if whenever they can

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sort of thing so if it's not harming

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anyone just let them be for a bit but

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you know it's fun to see what people

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believe it's you know it's always fun to

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see a new way of looking at stuff okay

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so so you're a bit more open to just

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trying on everything a bit like our last

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gentleman we spoke to here you know if

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they're wrong just give them a nudge

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pretty much yeah yeah I'm not a very

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argumentative sort of guy I just sort of

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like to see what people think about

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stuff you know why can't you be a bit

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more like him sounds like you're very

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annoying online I probably have I think

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I'm annoying in real life also this

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isn't the topic but I like to ask people

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who like to but what's thing to get your

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goat the most that you just you just

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can't stay away from if they tread into

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that area

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I yeah I work in public health so

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anything related to public health is a

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big I mean I haven't had to learn to

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step away from arguments but still I I

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find myself getting drawn in quite a bit

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okay well I hope you get we should be

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right tonight that one night off tonight

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he had hope so in this particular

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hopefully no one will tell me that

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vaccines cause autism in this room well

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we're talking about what to get pigs

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have to give away I've mentioned a few

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things earlier there I thinks I think a

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medicine they should concentrate on a

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better sense of fashion maybe drop the

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pants down a little bit lower look

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you're doing fine you've got your

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t-shirt on here which is very nice yeah

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now what do you reckon it's time to give

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away to concentrate on the bigger game

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I'll be honest I think water divining is

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a little bit you know it's a bit like Oh

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bless do you think I guess it's not

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harmless if farmers are spending money

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on it but then again if you can find

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water table anywhere you're gonna get

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your money back somehow I guess and also

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if people want to spend money on crap

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these and it is actually harmless like

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really it is harmless well then let them

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there are other things that cause a lot

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more damage and also water divining but

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I do feel like basically everyone knows

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is nonsense I never do another word then

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00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:33,550
but I think that most people know that

273
00:11:38,450 --> 00:11:36,210
is basically witchcraft

274
00:11:40,490 --> 00:11:38,460
speaking sand job have you seen the new

275
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,500
product on goop that the plaintiff

276
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:42,480
portrays got it's the acid face peel

277
00:11:46,010 --> 00:11:44,640
pads that have the the acid stuff on it

278
00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:46,020
so you put it on your face everything

279
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:47,310
you wouldn't be able to be sold

280
00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:49,050
over-the-counter a very strong acid peel

281
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:51,180
formulation in in that form would you

282
00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:53,730
that'll be useless well no and at least

283
00:12:00,330 --> 00:11:56,100
it's not for the vagina I suppose well

284
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:00,340
look don't know ouch now

285
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:02,770
don't put anything faster yeah that's

286
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:04,450
true yes oh that's the latest thing - so

287
00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:06,370
get on to that one but yeah I've got to

288
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:08,529
say yeah water divining and also it's so

289
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,330
tedious to try and prove it and they

290
00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:12,160
argue with you anyway and it's just a

291
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,580
bit pathetic hmm I think what divining

292
00:12:20,370 --> 00:12:17,279
is one of those ones that is basically

293
00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:20,380
almost harmless and I think we could be

294
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:22,060
spending a lot more time and I think

295
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:23,890
like a lot of the you know things like

296
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:26,890
horoscopes and there's psychics that you

297
00:12:30,420 --> 00:12:28,480
get in magazines and stuff it is

298
00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:30,430
basically harmless there are other

299
00:12:33,450 --> 00:12:31,900
psychics who are obviously a real

300
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:33,460
problem they're actual grief vampires

301
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:34,930
the people that are scamming money out

302
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:36,310
of people but if all they're doing is

303
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:37,690
writing a thing in with a woman's day

304
00:12:43,140 --> 00:12:41,050
saying you know I think that Drew

305
00:12:45,780 --> 00:12:43,150
Barrymore is going to have a baby this

306
00:12:46,650 --> 00:12:45,790
year oh well because they'd all want to

307
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:46,660
see that's no different all the

308
00:12:48,990 --> 00:12:47,890
journalists in those magazines are doing

309
00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:49,000
themselves they're just making up as

310
00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:50,740
they go along that's true that's a good

311
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:52,180
point and Drew Barrymore's coming to

312
00:12:55,740 --> 00:12:54,370
Australia shortly to tour for her makeup

313
00:12:57,570 --> 00:12:55,750
range she's doing something in the Bondi

314
00:12:59,340 --> 00:12:57,580
icebergs in about a month or so you're a

315
00:13:00,540 --> 00:12:59,350
fountain of knowledge Maynard well she

316
00:13:02,130 --> 00:13:00,550
rang me she wanted to go on the date I

317
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:02,140
said okay but you gotta sign that

318
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:03,970
Playboy magazine would you undercover so

319
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:05,110
you know who does it might not happen

320
00:13:10,620 --> 00:13:06,970
yet you know she's willable whisp you

321
00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:10,630
know between me and Tom Green there for

322
00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:12,460
a while it was touch-and-go mainly go

323
00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:14,260
and what do you think the skeptics

324
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:16,900
should give get in the boot to to

325
00:13:20,910 --> 00:13:18,130
concentrate on something to kick a bit

326
00:13:25,450 --> 00:13:20,920
harder I'm not sure I would draw the

327
00:13:28,810 --> 00:13:25,460
line on a particular topic of were

328
00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:28,820
I I think I think we could do a lot in

329
00:13:33,329 --> 00:13:30,260
terms of I'm not sure how well I can

330
00:13:37,450 --> 00:13:33,339
articulate this but um purity of bubble

331
00:13:40,810 --> 00:13:37,460
trying trying to get rid of people who

332
00:13:43,050 --> 00:13:40,820
have differing views I think although it

333
00:13:45,370 --> 00:13:43,060
can be extremely exhausting I think

334
00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:45,380
keeping contact with people who have

335
00:13:50,380 --> 00:13:48,310
differing views so that you can slowly

336
00:13:52,660 --> 00:13:50,390
expose them to different ways of

337
00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:52,670
thinking but I do have to be very

338
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:54,740
careful with that I do like that I

339
00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:56,570
always like talking to people with a

340
00:13:59,740 --> 00:13:58,250
range of views and I see what you mean

341
00:14:00,970 --> 00:13:59,750
because I was like hearing why people

342
00:14:04,090 --> 00:14:00,980
believe what they believe and I find

343
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:04,100
that fascinating yeah I had a friend on

344
00:14:12,190 --> 00:14:07,279
Facebook for a while who was a an Isis

345
00:14:14,380 --> 00:14:12,200
supporter until he blocked me wow that

346
00:14:17,740 --> 00:14:14,390
was fun like if an Isis supporter

347
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:17,750
blocked you how hard glory you not very

348
00:14:25,150 --> 00:14:22,010
but I certainly wasn't buying what they

349
00:14:26,829 --> 00:14:25,160
were selling wow that's a pretty extreme

350
00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:26,839
example of it there well that's good dog

351
00:14:30,579 --> 00:14:29,000
so listen to everybody but like keep an

352
00:14:33,329 --> 00:14:30,589
eye out that's what you say hey yeah

353
00:14:36,130 --> 00:14:33,339
yeah but but yeah don't just don't just

354
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,140
don't don't push a conversation so far

355
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:38,800
that you drive people away from engaging

356
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:41,120
because then you're just isolating them

357
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:43,690
you're just creating these separate

358
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:46,610
communities and they will find each

359
00:14:51,550 --> 00:14:48,650
other and build up their strength with

360
00:14:53,079 --> 00:14:51,560
each other rather than you know mixing

361
00:14:55,220 --> 00:14:53,089
with you and their and more reasonable

362
00:14:58,650 --> 00:14:55,230
points of view

363
00:15:00,300 --> 00:14:58,660
there we go snuggling hello and look

364
00:15:01,740 --> 00:15:00,310
I've been asking people what we know

365
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:01,750
skeptics should go a bit easy on their

366
00:15:04,170 --> 00:15:03,250
to concentrate on one of the some of the

367
00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:04,180
things they should give away the

368
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:08,110
extra-terrestrial hypothesis perhaps I'm

369
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:09,700
changing I'm not changing the question

370
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:11,170
completely but I'm just gonna change it

371
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:12,730
because I'm not really sure I feel like

372
00:15:18,060 --> 00:15:14,410
the medicine stuff is more important

373
00:15:20,180 --> 00:15:18,070
than dealing with UFOs and and the

374
00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:20,190
Bigfoot worker they call it in Australia

375
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:23,950
the Yowie however you know it all comes

376
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:25,450
slightly hand-in-hand because if people

377
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:27,610
are believing stuff like aliens and

378
00:15:30,810 --> 00:15:29,410
Yowies then they're more likely to be

379
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:30,820
believing the alternative medicine stuff

380
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:34,000
- on a personal level I feel like I I

381
00:15:39,390 --> 00:15:37,690
have to censor myself sometimes with who

382
00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:39,400
I'm speaking to and what I'm talking

383
00:15:42,450 --> 00:15:39,670
about

384
00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:42,460
you can't fight every battle you have to

385
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:45,430
pick your battles so I know for example

386
00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:46,930
if my mother tells me something about

387
00:15:50,010 --> 00:15:48,430
some homeopathy she's picked up or

388
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:50,020
whatever that I can actually with her

389
00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:51,970
tell it like it is and I can tell her

390
00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:53,260
exactly what it is and I can make sure

391
00:15:56,670 --> 00:15:54,790
she or she'll trust me and she'll

392
00:15:58,620 --> 00:15:56,680
believe me but with certain people at

393
00:16:01,200 --> 00:15:58,630
work I know that it's just not worth the

394
00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:01,210
argument so it's it's it's good to sow

395
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:02,830
the seeds and make them think about it

396
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:04,690
and question them about it but sometimes

397
00:16:09,270 --> 00:16:06,490
I really have to bite my tongue and just

398
00:16:11,370 --> 00:16:09,280
stop myself just for the sake of being

399
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:11,380
civil with people you're gonna see the

400
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:13,510
next day and the next day and when the

401
00:16:16,350 --> 00:16:15,130
paper comes out with the astrology or

402
00:16:18,090 --> 00:16:16,360
whatever you there you're gonna have the

403
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:18,100
argument at the same time every day

404
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:20,410
absolutely I opened an umbrella today in

405
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:22,240
class and half my class went oh my gosh

406
00:16:26,269 --> 00:16:24,480
mace that is bad luck

407
00:16:29,689 --> 00:16:26,279
yeah okay so we had a conversation about

408
00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:29,699
that oh now what do you think then there

409
00:16:33,259 --> 00:16:31,500
should be maybe get having less

410
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:33,269
attention so that more attention can be

411
00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:38,130
paid more important issues yeah you said

412
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:39,630
people who said before about thinking

413
00:16:44,449 --> 00:16:41,730
about it was I mean if I sort of had the

414
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:44,459
view that if you let one thing slip then

415
00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:45,810
you just let the next thing sit and

416
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:47,670
where do you stop let anything slip your

417
00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:50,399
hand so exactly so you know generally

418
00:16:55,069 --> 00:16:52,260
I'm the sort of put in me my particular

419
00:16:56,660 --> 00:16:55,079
work I pick things up fairly I don't let

420
00:16:58,879 --> 00:16:56,670
things slide so somebody said something

421
00:16:59,900 --> 00:16:58,889
that I think he's well let's say for a

422
00:17:02,090 --> 00:16:59,910
bit of word

423
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:02,100
I pull them up and I ask exactly what

424
00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:05,760
he's going on so I don't I don't

425
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:08,520
particularly enjoy people having a

426
00:17:13,819 --> 00:17:10,110
particular view that doesn't can't be

427
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:13,829
based up or can be backed up and so

428
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:15,569
there's a lot of you know double

429
00:17:18,289 --> 00:17:16,740
searching if somebody comes up with a

430
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,299
particular fact or reasoning behind

431
00:17:24,199 --> 00:17:21,120
something then there has to be a basis

432
00:17:25,730 --> 00:17:24,209
of why they believe it and I just turned

433
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:25,740
the question around a little bit so what

434
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:28,319
is the the incorrect facts that get your

435
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:30,510
goat the most so if it was like it's

436
00:17:33,230 --> 00:17:31,770
like a time management thing you've got

437
00:17:34,940 --> 00:17:33,240
a whole range of things here that you

438
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:34,950
could have an argument about what's the

439
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:36,210
one that would attract you to argue

440
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:38,850
about the most the issue people that say

441
00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:41,970
like oh my might say this was

442
00:17:46,820 --> 00:17:44,220
you know people the people that take

443
00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:46,830
anecdotal evidence as pure fact on that

444
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:56,580
face value well here at the bar and of

445
00:18:00,860 --> 00:17:58,080
course it's a big night we were going to

446
00:18:02,869 --> 00:18:00,870
be talking about the Apollo moon program

447
00:18:03,889 --> 00:18:02,879
we carry Doherty I'm looking forward to

448
00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:03,899
this we've got someone who really knows

449
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,950
with the talking about in tonight

450
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:06,240
absolutely I'm looking forward to a -

451
00:18:10,190 --> 00:18:07,919
it's about space they are the fake moon

452
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:10,200
landing yes that's a damn good footprint

453
00:18:15,139 --> 00:18:13,769
but on the moon bottom the big question

454
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:15,149
we've been asking people is what should

455
00:18:18,830 --> 00:18:17,039
skeptics maybe let go of to concentrate

456
00:18:20,269 --> 00:18:18,840
on some bigger issues or you know pick

457
00:18:21,529 --> 00:18:20,279
more important panels there what do you

458
00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:21,539
reckon should be let go some of the

459
00:18:26,869 --> 00:18:23,700
longtime stuff that you skeptics have

460
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:26,879
been banging on about since the 80s let

461
00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:28,740
go of them they like my children

462
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:31,860
oh yeah well children do I prefer did

463
00:18:35,090 --> 00:18:33,450
you really be spending much time on I

464
00:18:36,590 --> 00:18:35,100
strategy now you know it probably

465
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:36,600
astrology's have you did I actually

466
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:38,610
still have a soft spot for the Loch Ness

467
00:18:43,249 --> 00:18:41,610
monster and I really I would hate to

468
00:18:45,529 --> 00:18:43,259
lose that one but maybe I keep that one

469
00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:45,539
to myself yeah it could be a private

470
00:18:48,499 --> 00:18:46,980
little kind of thing if you like to have

471
00:18:50,690 --> 00:18:48,509
a battle with there me and my monster

472
00:18:52,369 --> 00:18:50,700
together because Loch Ness is a great

473
00:18:54,590 --> 00:18:52,379
place but if you go to any Lough Neagh

474
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:54,600
there they're all pretty good look and

475
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:55,919
it doesn't really matter and it doesn't

476
00:18:58,490 --> 00:18:57,210
really have to even be Scotland actually

477
00:18:59,869 --> 00:18:58,500
got a while and they got them - they're

478
00:19:01,159 --> 00:18:59,879
gonna be in Canada they've probably got

479
00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:01,169
to be here as well but they're bunyips

480
00:19:06,830 --> 00:19:04,590
here ok so you reckon sort of you don't

481
00:19:09,019 --> 00:19:06,840
want you don't wanna let go video I love

482
00:19:10,399 --> 00:19:09,029
them all I love them all equally I'd

483
00:19:12,169 --> 00:19:10,409
hate to say that I love one less than

484
00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:12,179
the other but I mean probably we should

485
00:19:15,549 --> 00:19:13,830
concentrate on the big issues that's so

486
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:15,559
boring though everyone says that

487
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:18,720
anti-vaxxers chiropractic the the altmed

488
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:26,899
I'm he would carry dhoti thank you for

489
00:19:30,110 --> 00:19:29,610
your great informative chat I'm glad you

490
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,120
enjoyed it

491
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:31,919
a lot of information to get in there and

492
00:19:34,249 --> 00:19:33,090
a lot of stuff that would be hard to

493
00:19:35,659 --> 00:19:34,259
find because they would've taken a few

494
00:19:38,149 --> 00:19:35,669
official photos and then moved on

495
00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:38,159
wouldn't they pretty much yeah the I

496
00:19:42,590 --> 00:19:40,529
mean my talk was called you know the

497
00:19:44,930 --> 00:19:42,600
dish was not the whole story very

498
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:44,940
specifically because we loved the movie

499
00:19:49,489 --> 00:19:47,129
the dish but it is only a movie and

500
00:19:50,989 --> 00:19:49,499
there's a much broader story that's part

501
00:19:53,539 --> 00:19:50,999
of Australia's involvement with the

502
00:19:56,450 --> 00:19:53,549
Apollo program but it's hard to find it

503
00:19:59,060 --> 00:19:56,460
brought together in one place except if

504
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:59,070
I can give a blatant plug to my own book

505
00:20:04,519 --> 00:20:01,919
yes yes which is called Australia in

506
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:04,529
space where I've actually set out that

507
00:20:07,999 --> 00:20:06,210
story of Australia's involvement with

508
00:20:10,190 --> 00:20:08,009
the Apollo program I was just watching

509
00:20:11,899 --> 00:20:10,200
them building all the huge dishes around

510
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:11,909
Australia for Communications and I

511
00:20:16,489 --> 00:20:14,610
thought hang on a minute this is when

512
00:20:18,409 --> 00:20:16,499
they were first developing their nuclear

513
00:20:19,609 --> 00:20:18,419
first-strike capability as well so what

514
00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:19,619
any of those have been used for

515
00:20:23,539 --> 00:20:21,480
communications for American defence

516
00:20:26,779 --> 00:20:23,549
purposes as well not that not the net

517
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:26,789
solutions the United States was actually

518
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:29,850
at that time developing a defense

519
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:32,610
communication system and in fact there

520
00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:34,110
was a very early program they were

521
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:37,529
looking at that for a while they looked

522
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:39,210
at having a ground station on Manus

523
00:20:46,519 --> 00:20:44,129
Island in PNG but no none of the nurses

524
00:20:50,869 --> 00:20:46,529
stations certainly in that period were

525
00:20:52,009 --> 00:20:50,879
used for military communications if

526
00:20:53,869 --> 00:20:52,019
they're going back to the moon as you

527
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:53,879
mentioned earlier there and what will

528
00:20:57,289 --> 00:20:55,200
they have to use in Australia this time

529
00:20:59,060 --> 00:20:57,299
because obviously the earth still a

530
00:21:01,629 --> 00:20:59,070
sphere so they've got to use bits of it

531
00:21:03,859 --> 00:21:01,639
haven't they well NASA actually has a

532
00:21:06,169 --> 00:21:03,869
satellite network that they use for all

533
00:21:07,970 --> 00:21:06,179
their orbital communications now that's

534
00:21:10,609 --> 00:21:07,980
why most of the tracking stations in

535
00:21:13,009 --> 00:21:10,619
Australia accept that Tidbinbilla which

536
00:21:14,899 --> 00:21:13,019
is for the deep space network all the

537
00:21:16,909 --> 00:21:14,909
others was shut down many years ago

538
00:21:19,549 --> 00:21:16,919
because they were made redundant by this

539
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:19,559
satellite network but for lunar

540
00:21:24,649 --> 00:21:21,600
communications they're still going to

541
00:21:27,220 --> 00:21:24,659
need facilities like Tidbinbilla and I'm

542
00:21:30,159 --> 00:21:27,230
I'm not I actually don't know

543
00:21:32,980 --> 00:21:30,169
assuming that they will probably the

544
00:21:35,289 --> 00:21:32,990
additional dishes constructed in order

545
00:21:37,090 --> 00:21:35,299
to you know provide that extra

546
00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:37,100
communications because you've met you

547
00:21:41,049 --> 00:21:39,350
mentioned about how the TV signal

548
00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:41,059
degraded to because it was analog

549
00:21:44,650 --> 00:21:42,740
communications every time everything had

550
00:21:46,030 --> 00:21:44,660
a hop between a signal there was a bit

551
00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:46,040
of a degradation and this is actually

552
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:47,150
been one of the things that comes up in

553
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:49,010
the conspiracy to about the moon-landing

554
00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:51,110
in that why doesn't look any good well

555
00:21:54,789 --> 00:21:52,910
because there was no other way to do it

556
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:54,799
yeah well that's exactly right that the

557
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:56,000
technology of the time was the

558
00:22:01,299 --> 00:21:57,410
technology of the time and it had

559
00:22:02,860 --> 00:22:01,309
certain limitations but as on my talk

560
00:22:05,049 --> 00:22:02,870
tonight you would have seen those images

561
00:22:07,030 --> 00:22:05,059
where the actual image is coming back

562
00:22:10,180 --> 00:22:07,040
from the moon were actually somewhat

563
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:10,190
clearer than what we see on what we saw

564
00:22:14,289 --> 00:22:12,080
on television all the contrast is being

565
00:22:16,450 --> 00:22:14,299
lost yeah because that's right because

566
00:22:18,820 --> 00:22:16,460
of all that degradation being converted

567
00:22:21,789 --> 00:22:18,830
to American system television being sent

568
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:21,799
by a landline and via satellite from

569
00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:24,650
Australia to the United States so all of

570
00:22:27,789 --> 00:22:26,150
those things were contributing to a loss

571
00:22:28,930 --> 00:22:27,799
of signal along the way

572
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:28,940
we had a lot of really interesting

573
00:22:32,409 --> 00:22:30,559
information in your talk there what

574
00:22:34,210 --> 00:22:32,419
would be the lesson we should take away

575
00:22:37,659 --> 00:22:34,220
from the from signals from Australia's

576
00:22:39,490 --> 00:22:37,669
history I think the the lesson that we

577
00:22:43,030 --> 00:22:39,500
should take away is that you know

578
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:43,040
Australia can do world-class space

579
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:46,610
related communications what do you think

580
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:49,850
our proudest moment should be oh there's

581
00:22:53,169 --> 00:22:51,530
plenty in there some of the ones are

582
00:22:56,740 --> 00:22:53,179
most dramatic is Apollo but are fairly

583
00:22:59,409 --> 00:22:56,750
breathtaking actually if let's leave

584
00:23:01,620 --> 00:22:59,419
aside Apollo 11 for a minute I think it

585
00:23:04,299 --> 00:23:01,630
has to be the rescue of Apollo 13

586
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:04,309
because of the the work that was done

587
00:23:11,049 --> 00:23:06,770
here in Australia at honeysuckle and

588
00:23:13,299 --> 00:23:11,059
parks to really untangle the the signal

589
00:23:14,919 --> 00:23:13,309
problems that they had with the lunar

590
00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:14,929
module and the problems with a

591
00:23:18,490 --> 00:23:16,460
conflicting beacon that was coming from

592
00:23:19,870 --> 00:23:18,500
the Saturn 5 stage yes because it was a

593
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:19,880
very close frequency so it was

594
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:20,910
interference right

595
00:23:25,130 --> 00:23:22,650
so you know the work they did with that

596
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:25,140
particularly at parks in you know being

597
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:27,510
able to tease out that that very faint

598
00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:29,370
signal from a lot of a lot of noise and

599
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:31,500
interference was really quite

600
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:32,940
significant you know it was a major

601
00:23:36,410 --> 00:23:34,710
contribution to actually being able to

602
00:23:38,270 --> 00:23:36,420
save the mission then and what is the

603
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:38,280
book again please and who published it

604
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:40,710
book is called Australia in space and

605
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:44,640
the publisher is ATF ATF press they're

606
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,410
in Adelaide they're local publisher and

607
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:48,960
you can order it online through their

608
00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:51,090
website I want to think we should get

609
00:23:56,180 --> 00:23:52,950
excited about next in the Australia's

610
00:23:59,150 --> 00:23:56,190
adventures in space well I think we need

611
00:24:01,010 --> 00:23:59,160
to get excited about where the having

612
00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:01,020
the space agency is going to take us in

613
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:04,020
the future well that's it that's a wrap

614
00:24:08,090 --> 00:24:05,730
first get picked in the pub for April

615
00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:08,100
we've been to space we've been to the

616
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,200
bar we've been downstairs and looked at

617
00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:11,760
the future traders drinking at the bar

618
00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:12,870
and let me show that's not a place you

619
00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:15,060
want to be a doctor Dental on a Thursday

620
00:24:20,570 --> 00:24:17,070
night but we'll be back oh hang on so

621
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:20,580
next month join us the first Thursday in

622
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:21,930
May at skeptics in the pub you at the

623
00:24:27,380 --> 00:24:24,050
Occidental hotel we'll be talking about

624
00:24:29,060 --> 00:24:27,390
the science of rips that's right if you

625
00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:29,070
go out an Australian surf should you

626
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:31,680
swim across should use float and weight

627
00:24:34,850 --> 00:24:32,880
you go out to sea and come back again

628
00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:34,860
all of those theories and they're

629
00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:36,660
competing reasons why you shouldn't

630
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:39,000
shouldn't do them will be discussed next

631
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:42,090
month in skeptics of the pub skeptics in

632
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:44,580
the pub in the pub I'm skeptic of the

633
00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:47,250
pub well of this particular day yeah

634
00:25:03,980 --> 00:24:49,350
they put us on the wrong floor okay and

635
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:14,470
[Music]

636
00:25:18,650 --> 00:25:16,850
here's some news from our friends at the

637
00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:18,660
Victorian skeptics international

638
00:25:26,410 --> 00:25:23,150
podcasters - keynote at skeptic on 2019

639
00:25:31,580 --> 00:25:29,750
The News says we are thrilled to

640
00:25:33,650 --> 00:25:31,590
announce that the entire team from the

641
00:25:35,930 --> 00:25:33,660
acclaimed international podcast the

642
00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:35,940
skeptics guide to the universe are to be

643
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:38,700
the keynote speakers at skeptic on 2019

644
00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:40,770
the skeptics guide to the universe or

645
00:25:45,410 --> 00:25:43,260
SGU as it's known is one of the most

646
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:45,420
popular and respected podcasts on

647
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:47,760
critical thinking reason and the public

648
00:25:53,150 --> 00:25:50,400
understanding of science the first

649
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:53,160
episode of the SGU podcast went online

650
00:25:58,940 --> 00:25:56,490
on the 4th of May 2005 and today is one

651
00:26:00,010 --> 00:25:58,950
of the most popular science podcasts on

652
00:26:03,770 --> 00:26:00,020
iTunes

653
00:26:05,930 --> 00:26:03,780
the SGU team is also the authors of the

654
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:05,940
best-selling the skeptics guide to the

655
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:08,400
universe how to know what's really real

656
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,610
in a world consistently full of fake as

657
00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:14,640
well as listening to the SGU speak

658
00:26:18,590 --> 00:26:16,800
delegates will have the opportunity to

659
00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:18,600
mix with the team at the conference

660
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:20,790
social events including the Friday night

661
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:22,890
meet-and-greet and Saturday night's

662
00:26:29,330 --> 00:26:26,370
conference dinner skeptic on 2019 will

663
00:26:31,550 --> 00:26:29,340
include a range of other speakers from

664
00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:31,560
the local and international skeptic

665
00:26:36,020 --> 00:26:33,630
community further announcements will be

666
00:26:38,690 --> 00:26:36,030
made in the coming weeks early bird

667
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:38,700
tickets for skeptic on 2019 will be

668
00:26:49,129 --> 00:26:47,419
you can read that and get some more

669
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:49,139
information about the conference in

670
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:53,129
general by visiting skeptic on org dot

671
00:27:01,779 --> 00:26:59,039
au and skeptic on 2019 will be held in

672
00:27:33,019 --> 00:27:01,789
Melbourne from the 6th to the 8th of

673
00:27:35,019 --> 00:27:33,029
December 2019 and joining me now on the

674
00:27:38,419 --> 00:27:35,029
line all the way from Sydney Australia

675
00:27:41,029 --> 00:27:38,429
it's Tim Mendham hello Tim a very could

676
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:41,039
I say all the way from Sydney Australia

677
00:27:45,019 --> 00:27:42,960
it's sometimes of the day depending on

678
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:45,029
when you drive the other side of Sydney

679
00:27:51,310 --> 00:27:46,769
Australia can be like going to the far

680
00:27:53,149 --> 00:27:51,320
side of the moon I think they can be now

681
00:27:54,889 --> 00:27:53,159
skeptics and listen is a very familiar

682
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:54,899
with Tim minimum of course I'm often

683
00:27:58,999 --> 00:27:57,330
reading articles and reports and press

684
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:59,009
releases from Tim Mendham the editor of

685
00:28:04,369 --> 00:28:01,679
the skeptic magazine and indeed you'll

686
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:04,379
you would have heard Tim on this week's

687
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,480
episode when he was interviewed by main

688
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:09,120
islet skeptics in the pub but last week

689
00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:11,850
Tim I read out the report you wrote 30

690
00:28:17,690 --> 00:28:15,350
years ago about the very first

691
00:28:20,889 --> 00:28:17,700
mind/body/spirit in Sydney what do you

692
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:20,899
recall from that 30 years ago much

693
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:23,970
rather dates me doesn't it it does the

694
00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:27,960
interesting thing is it's a basic same

695
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:30,440
products and things the same sort of

696
00:28:37,070 --> 00:28:35,490
lack of incisive review of the products

697
00:28:39,860 --> 00:28:37,080
they have been the crystals and the

698
00:28:41,389 --> 00:28:39,870
therapies and the psychics and and the

699
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:41,399
classics or the stuff that goes with a

700
00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:44,490
new age type festival no I've seen over

701
00:28:48,889 --> 00:28:45,960
the years I guess I've been going for

702
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:48,899
about 10 plus years regularly I've

703
00:28:54,289 --> 00:28:51,450
certainly seen things come and go you

704
00:28:56,989 --> 00:28:54,299
know a odd little new age whatever's

705
00:28:58,699 --> 00:28:56,999
more a device or a machine or a mandala

706
00:29:01,609 --> 00:28:58,709
but there are some evergreens out there

707
00:29:02,899 --> 00:29:01,619
there always are and which is rather sad

708
00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:02,909
that some of these things never change

709
00:29:07,489 --> 00:29:05,369
the crystals were there at enforce the

710
00:29:09,169 --> 00:29:07,499
the aromas the little burning of incense

711
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:09,179
that sort of stuff obviously the

712
00:29:13,789 --> 00:29:10,769
psychics themselves they have a big room

713
00:29:16,009 --> 00:29:13,799
put aside for our musty about twenty

714
00:29:19,339 --> 00:29:16,019
thirty psychics all sort of taking

715
00:29:21,859 --> 00:29:19,349
readings constantly yeah there's the

716
00:29:23,299 --> 00:29:21,869
meditation people are there and one of

717
00:29:25,429 --> 00:29:23,309
the things that does change is probably

718
00:29:27,289 --> 00:29:25,439
all the the IT stuff is now coming in a

719
00:29:29,149 --> 00:29:27,299
bit more obviously thirty years ago

720
00:29:30,829 --> 00:29:29,159
there wasn't a lot of personal computers

721
00:29:33,169 --> 00:29:30,839
and people doing that sort of analysis

722
00:29:35,299 --> 00:29:33,179
and that's propping up now using those

723
00:29:36,499 --> 00:29:35,309
sort of tools rather than people's

724
00:29:38,629 --> 00:29:36,509
psychic powers

725
00:29:40,099 --> 00:29:38,639
well it's your help yeah that you make a

726
00:29:42,619 --> 00:29:40,109
good point because one of the things

727
00:29:46,429 --> 00:29:42,629
we've noticed in the past all four four

728
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:46,439
years three four years is this device

729
00:29:50,989 --> 00:29:48,809
where one of them is called the Metatron

730
00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:50,999
and for people not familiar it's like a

731
00:29:55,849 --> 00:29:53,609
laptop computer you hook up by a pair of

732
00:29:58,969 --> 00:29:55,859
headphones to your head and the idea is

733
00:30:00,739 --> 00:29:58,979
it sends vibrations from the laptop

734
00:30:02,749 --> 00:30:00,749
through your body bounce back through

735
00:30:04,939 --> 00:30:02,759
the headphones and display your organs

736
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:04,949
on the screen I take it they were there

737
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,569
again they were there again

738
00:30:11,059 --> 00:30:08,399
yes yeah they're really out there sort

739
00:30:12,229 --> 00:30:11,069
of doing exactly that they were the sort

740
00:30:13,939 --> 00:30:12,239
of people using differences with the

741
00:30:14,989 --> 00:30:13,949
Scientologist were they well that's

742
00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:14,999
interesting you should say that because

743
00:30:19,339 --> 00:30:17,129
in the article I read out last week from

744
00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:19,349
30 years ago they were there as well

745
00:30:27,109 --> 00:30:21,569
yeah and they're still using their a

746
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:27,119
meter and the fellow I was with went

747
00:30:32,179 --> 00:30:30,089
down and I went for a reading a test of

748
00:30:35,089 --> 00:30:32,189
his stress levels etc which is basically

749
00:30:37,159 --> 00:30:35,099
what the email is suppose mm-hmm and he

750
00:30:38,899 --> 00:30:37,169
told them yes a lot of untruths would

751
00:30:42,019 --> 00:30:38,909
say obviously couldn't differentiate

752
00:30:43,849 --> 00:30:42,029
from any truth that people have a mater

753
00:30:46,429 --> 00:30:43,859
just finds what it wants to find or what

754
00:30:47,419 --> 00:30:46,439
the operator wanted to find yes doesn't

755
00:30:51,099 --> 00:30:47,429
matter if you're telling the truth or

756
00:30:53,539 --> 00:30:51,109
not it's just it's just a gimmick and

757
00:30:55,159 --> 00:30:53,549
again you mentioned before it is this

758
00:30:57,679 --> 00:30:55,169
it's a lot of the same things like

759
00:31:00,609 --> 00:30:57,689
crystal healing a lot of crystal healing

760
00:31:04,069 --> 00:31:00,619
a lot of spiritualists a lot of

761
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:04,079
supposedly Eastern Tibetan philosophies

762
00:31:08,659 --> 00:31:06,690
and that sort of stuff meditation based

763
00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:08,669
there was an organization doing

764
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:10,620
meditation sessions

765
00:31:14,810 --> 00:31:12,210
very friendly actually I must have it

766
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:14,820
when I went in for a minute or 10 minute

767
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:16,650
meditation session was rather hard as

768
00:31:22,820 --> 00:31:20,130
you would know you go to the mind body

769
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:22,830
while it's things are very noisy mm-hmm

770
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:24,240
a lot of people making noises a lot of

771
00:31:27,169 --> 00:31:25,650
people talking away so so trying to

772
00:31:27,850 --> 00:31:27,179
meditate in that sort of environment is

773
00:31:33,649 --> 00:31:27,860
not easy

774
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:33,659
whereas they were probably pretty

775
00:31:38,659 --> 00:31:36,450
well-meaning it's just pure meditation

776
00:31:40,909 --> 00:31:38,669
really there's no you extra special but

777
00:31:43,070 --> 00:31:40,919
there are other areas where you see the

778
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:43,080
things that protect you from radiation

779
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:46,529
from phone yes my radiation is there yes

780
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:48,720
over there again the ones that you plug

781
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:49,890
in the wall where there's nothing inside

782
00:31:55,310 --> 00:31:53,010
them just protect you from radiation a

783
00:31:57,169 --> 00:31:55,320
different group although we dealt with

784
00:31:58,279 --> 00:31:57,179
some of these people before yeah but a

785
00:32:01,039 --> 00:31:58,289
different group of selling the same

786
00:32:02,899 --> 00:32:01,049
product really yeah this is all based on

787
00:32:05,930 --> 00:32:02,909
this wonderful thing called all gone

788
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:05,940
energy that's right yeah I mean there's

789
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,250
a product called geo cleanse geo cleanse

790
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:10,880
you use the one you plug into the wall

791
00:32:14,210 --> 00:32:12,960
looks like a double of that or something

792
00:32:15,889 --> 00:32:14,220
but nothing really there's nothing in

793
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:15,899
there they had the little stickers you

794
00:32:19,730 --> 00:32:18,450
put on phones mobile phones yeah

795
00:32:20,899 --> 00:32:19,740
absolutely nothing but they had a whole

796
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:20,909
range of these things feels quite

797
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:23,340
expensive the variations they had of

798
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:25,919
these things too to protect you another

799
00:32:31,310 --> 00:32:28,799
one that I know you've met before in

800
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:31,320
very interesting circumstances those are

801
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:34,590
people selling inner soles yo-yo like

802
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,840
things to go inside your shoes to

803
00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:38,640
actually improve your balance and your

804
00:32:44,299 --> 00:32:41,580
strength and he was doing he was doing a

805
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:44,309
test and I would test will you stand

806
00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:46,380
there with your hands one fist inside

807
00:32:50,539 --> 00:32:49,020
another yes and he pulls you down and

808
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,549
show with your balance is and then put

809
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:52,559
you on these two old shoes and can't put

810
00:32:57,380 --> 00:32:54,570
you can't pull your cross amazing

811
00:32:59,360 --> 00:32:57,390
instead of ten years ago you would have

812
00:33:01,250 --> 00:32:59,370
worn the Power Balance wristband these

813
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:01,260
days you can use some special insoles

814
00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:04,080
and mystically the same thing happens

815
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:06,360
the interesting thing was he stressed

816
00:33:12,620 --> 00:33:11,450
very strongly that um he has this TTA

817
00:33:14,299 --> 00:33:12,630
imprimatur

818
00:33:16,340 --> 00:33:14,309
oh yeah on the Therapeutic Goods

819
00:33:18,620 --> 00:33:16,350
Administration that he says yeah I

820
00:33:21,289 --> 00:33:18,630
wouldn't do this unless I had this TTA

821
00:33:23,659 --> 00:33:21,299
you know sort of license if you like

822
00:33:24,530 --> 00:33:23,669
look at the plane he used the Tommies of

823
00:33:26,090 --> 00:33:24,540
course that with the

824
00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:26,100
da listing but all you have to do is

825
00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:28,980
write in and say you do these thing here

826
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:30,990
mostly it's all computer-based and the

827
00:33:34,730 --> 00:33:33,210
TVA doesn't test all that many of these

828
00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:34,740
things that are just there to be listed

829
00:33:39,950 --> 00:33:37,320
yeah yeah so he was using this though as

830
00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:39,960
a selling point and I think that's

831
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:41,220
something we should know really closely

832
00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:43,170
because which is what we've been saying

833
00:33:48,140 --> 00:33:46,500
to the TGA for some time is that if they

834
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:48,150
don't test it anyone can say anything

835
00:33:54,860 --> 00:33:51,840
and claim that if we approve by the TGA

836
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:54,870
body and and that we've seen them do

837
00:33:58,970 --> 00:33:57,090
this for years they say look see it's

838
00:34:01,850 --> 00:33:58,980
been approved by the government and for

839
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:01,860
the average punter that means it must

840
00:34:05,330 --> 00:34:03,510
work that's right

841
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:05,340
but he was stressing this he Bank made

842
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:08,130
this a big point of his sales pitch yeah

843
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:10,410
and these things they chill things go

844
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:11,850
for several hundred dollars so they're

845
00:34:17,870 --> 00:34:15,330
not they're not cheap so but that really

846
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:17,880
worried me and I know that you've had

847
00:34:22,490 --> 00:34:19,770
dealings with this same fellow before

848
00:34:25,490 --> 00:34:22,500
yes and and many more of their sort of

849
00:34:27,230 --> 00:34:25,500
ilk are doing these balance tests on a

850
00:34:29,570 --> 00:34:27,240
range of products over the years I've

851
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:29,580
seen another thing Tim that I've always

852
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:31,410
noticed over the years and I wonder how

853
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:33,570
it compares to 30 years ago is you'll

854
00:34:39,169 --> 00:34:35,490
get stand selling things like some

855
00:34:41,930 --> 00:34:39,179
alkaline water or salts or the juices of

856
00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:41,940
this and that if far those have changed

857
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:44,790
I mean obviously there's a lot of what a

858
00:34:48,770 --> 00:34:47,280
health food stall Farish really knowing

859
00:34:51,169 --> 00:34:48,780
all sorts of things even nuga which

860
00:34:53,720 --> 00:34:51,179
surprises think oh yeah I don't know how

861
00:34:55,790 --> 00:34:53,730
well he does but he asked me to be ok

862
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:55,800
the the medical products the pseudo

863
00:34:58,880 --> 00:34:57,090
medical products are pseudo health

864
00:35:00,850 --> 00:34:58,890
products I think they change

865
00:35:02,780 --> 00:35:00,860
I must mean I don't recall that many

866
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:02,790
they're probably worth something that's

867
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:05,520
from 30 years ago but Sophie they were

868
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:07,770
they were there this year the salt the

869
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:09,690
special waters the treated waters the

870
00:35:13,730 --> 00:35:12,000
magic one there were a lot of things

871
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:13,740
they were talking about energy is and

872
00:35:18,980 --> 00:35:17,010
spirit and infusing yes folks were there

873
00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:18,990
sort of stuff so that's very prevalent

874
00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:22,020
there also we had a chat with someone

875
00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:24,990
who's they were doing a lot of Reiki

876
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:27,390
plant things well knew yes sitting hands

877
00:35:32,090 --> 00:35:29,370
absolutely all of that going on a people

878
00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:32,100
sort of lying down on benches and beings

879
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:34,440
that have healed but there's wonderfully

880
00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:37,650
we spoke to who was part of a group they

881
00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:38,400
were doing this

882
00:35:42,289 --> 00:35:40,740
hailing basically all they did he said

883
00:35:45,650 --> 00:35:42,299
there's his holes points on the brain

884
00:35:46,789 --> 00:35:45,660
like meridians in acupuncture but there

885
00:35:48,140 --> 00:35:46,799
were different points there were

886
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:48,150
different called different things so

887
00:35:51,650 --> 00:35:49,920
they were the same as meridians mmm

888
00:35:53,359 --> 00:35:51,660
basically he said you could do a

889
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:53,369
training course in one day and then

890
00:35:58,760 --> 00:35:56,430
start practicing and these things were

891
00:36:00,349 --> 00:35:58,770
charging decent money for this like 15

892
00:36:02,930 --> 00:36:00,359
minute session someone would basically

893
00:36:05,089 --> 00:36:02,940
just lie there and the practitioner

894
00:36:07,460 --> 00:36:05,099
would just put their hand on the head or

895
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,470
behind the head like you know top of the

896
00:36:14,089 --> 00:36:09,359
neck that sort of thing and that was it

897
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:14,099
yeah yeah I could do we've always said

898
00:36:17,260 --> 00:36:15,690
we're in the wrong business team we are

899
00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:17,270
the wrong business

900
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:21,630
well that's I mean it's it's a regular

901
00:36:25,339 --> 00:36:23,609
thing I put myself through where I'm in

902
00:36:27,140 --> 00:36:25,349
the country lately I've not always been

903
00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:27,150
in the country but a mind body spirit

904
00:36:32,029 --> 00:36:29,400
mind body well it is we call of it but

905
00:36:34,670 --> 00:36:32,039
folks around the world around the world

906
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:34,680
you are likely to find somewhere near

907
00:36:39,950 --> 00:36:37,680
you some sort of New Age festival with

908
00:36:42,019 --> 00:36:39,960
psychics and healers and altmed and all

909
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:42,029
sorts of things and we've said Tim for

910
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:43,890
many years that at least once every

911
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:45,930
skeptic owes it to themselves to go

912
00:36:50,210 --> 00:36:48,960
along and see what it's like yeah and

913
00:36:52,549 --> 00:36:50,220
the thing is of course you know you go

914
00:36:55,010 --> 00:36:52,559
there okay maybe more than once every 30

915
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:55,020
years I have been made more the ones of

916
00:36:58,609 --> 00:36:56,880
you thirty if you have but it's a lot of

917
00:37:00,890 --> 00:36:58,619
stuff that doesn't change and I think is

918
00:37:03,019 --> 00:37:00,900
of course crystals crystals everywhere

919
00:37:05,839 --> 00:37:03,029
my favourite is the pyramid shaped

920
00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:05,849
crystals they're covering up a lot of a

921
00:37:09,260 --> 00:37:07,619
lot of health benefits in one go but

922
00:37:11,150 --> 00:37:09,270
that sort of thing that yes a lot of

923
00:37:13,279 --> 00:37:11,160
things stay exactly the same after 30

924
00:37:14,990 --> 00:37:13,289
years and as always there is something

925
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:15,000
new and often a bit of technology that's

926
00:37:18,799 --> 00:37:17,010
new one thing I was interested actually

927
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:18,809
a bit disappointed here I must admit in

928
00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:21,119
the program there was a list of a lot of

929
00:37:24,529 --> 00:37:22,920
organisations that didn't seem to be

930
00:37:26,809 --> 00:37:24,539
they that's free to attend these days

931
00:37:28,309 --> 00:37:26,819
yes he used to have to charge for and of

932
00:37:29,779 --> 00:37:28,319
course you have to pay for would pay to

933
00:37:31,789 --> 00:37:29,789
get in but now it's free to attend

934
00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:31,799
obviously they're trying to get enough

935
00:37:36,319 --> 00:37:34,680
money from the exhibitors to make it

936
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:36,329
worthwhile plus of course they want to

937
00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:37,650
make sure there's enough people coming

938
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:38,099
through

939
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:40,170
yeah and they often have relationships

940
00:37:44,510 --> 00:37:42,000
with an exhibition for a totally

941
00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:44,520
different area next door and they might

942
00:37:49,579 --> 00:37:47,190
swap attendances and that sort of stuff

943
00:37:51,019 --> 00:37:49,589
there was a home's exhibition all of a

944
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:51,029
building and plumbing and that sort of

945
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:51,930
nothing

946
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:53,610
and there they were offering a

947
00:37:59,390 --> 00:37:57,450
two-for-one deal which is free of okay

948
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:59,400
so one thing they had a list of the

949
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:00,960
program all very professionally put

950
00:38:04,130 --> 00:38:02,850
together hmm and they had the list of

951
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:04,140
the exhibitors and one thing I was

952
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:06,810
disappointed was supposedly side by side

953
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:08,970
we're going to be the Scientologists and

954
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,370
the Catholic Church hmm now I would have

955
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:13,440
felt very excited to sit there and go

956
00:38:17,390 --> 00:38:15,930
yes yes no no but go one to the other

957
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:17,400
and I thought you the Catholics weren't

958
00:38:20,570 --> 00:38:19,410
there I don't know why maybe they but

959
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:20,580
maybe they've had some bad press lately

960
00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:24,570
I don't know we don't know but you make

961
00:38:29,150 --> 00:38:26,940
a good point and also I think partly why

962
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:29,160
it's free these days and has been for

963
00:38:33,710 --> 00:38:31,680
about two years now I think because you

964
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,720
have to register online to get you a

965
00:38:38,750 --> 00:38:36,000
free ticket and it's just another way to

966
00:38:41,170 --> 00:38:38,760
harvest emails I'm sure I'm sure it is

967
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:41,180
but also don't just saying just turn up

968
00:38:45,310 --> 00:38:43,410
quite frankly when I was there for the

969
00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:45,320
you know hanging around the infants way

970
00:38:49,820 --> 00:38:48,150
waiting for someone to come they just

971
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:49,830
said I just come along oh well there you

972
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:51,240
go there's no bad use for anything you

973
00:38:52,820 --> 00:38:52,650
can just wander in no one knows who you

974
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,830
are

975
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:54,240
yeah yeah so you don't have to

976
00:38:57,470 --> 00:38:55,890
pre-register necessarily you can just

977
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:57,480
clean up they have to make up an email

978
00:39:00,530 --> 00:38:58,650
address if you want to they'd be a

979
00:39:02,660 --> 00:39:00,540
terrible thing to do I would I wouldn't

980
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,670
suggest that at all no no no but they

981
00:39:07,070 --> 00:39:04,800
just turn up so I think they do need the

982
00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:07,080
numbers obviously they do it was fairly

983
00:39:11,570 --> 00:39:09,510
crowded it was a pretty it looks pretty

984
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:11,580
successful I've been to many exhibitions

985
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:14,250
and this one had a decent turnout of a

986
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:17,160
lot of it again folks it really is if

987
00:39:22,460 --> 00:39:20,250
you consider yourself a skeptic on the

988
00:39:24,020 --> 00:39:22,470
move wanting to know and see what's

989
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:24,030
going on it's worth visiting one of

990
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:26,010
these things apart from that Tim you are

991
00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:28,050
of course as our listeners know you are

992
00:39:31,370 --> 00:39:29,880
the editor of the skeptic magazine the

993
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:31,380
journal from the Australian skeptics and

994
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:33,270
what I've been doing over the past

995
00:39:38,090 --> 00:39:35,610
months now is I've been poring over the

996
00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:38,100
thousands of articles and items and

997
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:40,020
reports from the pages of the skeptics

998
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:41,490
and every now and then I think now

999
00:39:46,730 --> 00:39:43,680
that's a good one to read out what's

1000
00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:46,740
coming up or can our listeners even dare

1001
00:39:51,410 --> 00:39:49,710
I say help you listeners could always

1002
00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:51,420
help us actually I'm always sort of as

1003
00:39:55,550 --> 00:39:53,400
an editor you know they're people who

1004
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:55,560
contribute editorial are always worth

1005
00:39:58,370 --> 00:39:56,010
gold

1006
00:40:01,400 --> 00:39:58,380
hmm no I'm always on the lookout for new

1007
00:40:03,410 --> 00:40:01,410
topics and new submissions of editorial

1008
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:03,420
they can just get in touch with me 5 a

1009
00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:05,810
skeptic the skeptic website

1010
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:09,540
editor and skeptics kamidana you always

1011
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:11,910
always very willing to hear from people

1012
00:40:15,470 --> 00:40:13,440
who might have an idea for a story

1013
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:15,480
that's great there you are folks if you

1014
00:40:20,330 --> 00:40:18,000
want to have your chance to maybe be

1015
00:40:22,310 --> 00:40:20,340
published in a skeptical journal that

1016
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:22,320
Tim Mendham the editor is always

1017
00:40:26,690 --> 00:40:24,330
interested in news stories new articles

1018
00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:26,700
I think Tim it's fair to say hopefully

1019
00:40:30,620 --> 00:40:28,740
with an Australian flavor an Australian

1020
00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:30,630
point of view but it's quite broad isn't

1021
00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:32,670
it it is very broad actually I mean sort

1022
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:33,270
of

1023
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:34,560
I mean the magazine's been around for a

1024
00:40:38,270 --> 00:40:35,910
long we're coming up to our 40th

1025
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:38,280
anniversary Wow we are yes

1026
00:40:42,620 --> 00:40:40,380
pretty impressive any other publication

1027
00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:42,630
anywhere in the world actually but 40

1028
00:40:47,870 --> 00:40:45,060
years we're coming up to our 39th and

1029
00:40:50,750 --> 00:40:47,880
the second issue of the 30 months volume

1030
00:40:52,610 --> 00:40:50,760
and so yeah we we do cover a whole range

1031
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:52,620
of stuff the obviously cover a lot of

1032
00:40:57,950 --> 00:40:55,770
the more sort of high-profile areas of

1033
00:41:00,020 --> 00:40:57,960
alternative medicine and that quackery

1034
00:41:02,570 --> 00:41:00,030
but we like to cover everything from the

1035
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:02,580
classic sceptics topics to all sorts of

1036
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:02,760
stuff

1037
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:04,170
the interesting thing when you say in

1038
00:41:10,820 --> 00:41:08,730
Australian town or to these things a lot

1039
00:41:12,740 --> 00:41:10,830
of the stuff is universal yes it's

1040
00:41:15,190 --> 00:41:12,750
that's the sad thing I mean yeah you do

1041
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:15,200
find the same active axis and the same

1042
00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:18,960
unknown creatures around the world you

1043
00:41:23,870 --> 00:41:22,260
do you do large walking ape-like

1044
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:23,880
creatures and anti-vaxxers are

1045
00:41:27,710 --> 00:41:25,560
everywhere I think maybe they go hand in

1046
00:41:30,350 --> 00:41:27,720
hand who knows I'd like to see them

1047
00:41:32,330 --> 00:41:30,360
walking handed into the forest in a way

1048
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:32,340
I think any place where they can boot I

1049
00:41:36,110 --> 00:41:34,200
think I'd have to agree with you there

1050
00:41:37,790 --> 00:41:36,120
well there you are folks there's the the

1051
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:37,800
clue for you if you want to get in touch

1052
00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:39,690
with Tim in the mouth add a link in this

1053
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:40,980
week's show notes but it's easy enough

1054
00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:43,110
at skeptics calm today you and you can

1055
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:43,800
take it from there

1056
00:41:47,690 --> 00:41:45,510
well thank you very much Tim I look

1057
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:47,700
forward to catching up with you soon and

1058
00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:50,040
maybe who knows we can explore another

1059
00:42:04,740 --> 00:41:52,950
mind body wallet together I can't and

1060
00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:09,920
[Music]

1061
00:42:20,250 --> 00:42:13,180
free flu vaccination day in Sydney on

1062
00:42:23,130 --> 00:42:20,260
the 4th of May getting vaccinated

1063
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:23,140
against seasonal flu protects you and

1064
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:24,160
your community

1065
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:26,530
sir Australian skeptics Inc is once

1066
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:29,920
again hosting a free flu vaccination

1067
00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:34,720
clinic this will be held at the East

1068
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:37,420
Sydney doctors on Saturday the 4th of

1069
00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:39,690
May from 2 p.m.

1070
00:42:45,390 --> 00:42:42,940
vaccines are free for attendees although

1071
00:42:47,910 --> 00:42:45,400
some people may already qualify for free

1072
00:42:51,570 --> 00:42:47,920
vaccines under the National immunisation

1073
00:42:54,030 --> 00:42:51,580
program any unused vaccines will be

1074
00:42:59,010 --> 00:42:54,040
donated to the East Sydney doctors to

1075
00:43:02,580 --> 00:42:59,020
distribute to the community East Sydney

1076
00:43:07,350 --> 00:43:02,590
doctors is located at 102 virtus treat

1077
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:07,360
Darlinghurst New South Wales don't

1078
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:09,520
forget to bring your Medicare card and

1079
00:43:16,260 --> 00:43:12,720
if you're interested in attending simply

1080
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:16,270
register your interest at the links in

1081
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:19,510
this week's show notes or visit wwf/e

1082
00:43:40,060 --> 00:43:22,310
XCOM you

1083
00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:40,070
[Music]

1084
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:43,350
now from New Zealand the land of long

1085
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:47,250
white cloud and some tall tales we read

1086
00:43:54,140 --> 00:43:50,460
from the Southland Times psychic

1087
00:43:59,630 --> 00:43:54,150
information an oxymoronic offering for

1088
00:44:02,830 --> 00:43:59,640
police searches published on the 2nd of

1089
00:44:06,140 --> 00:44:02,840
April 2019

1090
00:44:10,820 --> 00:44:06,150
there's a reason police don't work with

1091
00:44:12,860 --> 00:44:10,830
psychics psychics don't work which is a

1092
00:44:15,140 --> 00:44:12,870
bit of an issue in the results

1093
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:15,150
orientated realms in which police and

1094
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:17,880
search and rescue personnel operate with

1095
00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:21,210
the best will in the other world not one

1096
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:24,420
example of face scrunched chest

1097
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:28,260
tightening I feel such a chill emoting

1098
00:44:36,050 --> 00:44:30,720
has yet solved the single New Zealand

1099
00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:36,060
murder will resolve the search to which

1100
00:44:43,490 --> 00:44:38,790
the makers of televisions sensing murder

1101
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:43,500
remind us well it's not called solving

1102
00:44:50,030 --> 00:44:46,730
murder to them success rates mean

1103
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:50,040
successful ratings they make Airy claims

1104
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:51,930
about drawing public attention to

1105
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:54,930
unresolved cases one sensing murder

1106
00:45:00,350 --> 00:44:57,210
representative explained that the aim

1107
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:00,360
was to shine a light on each case not to

1108
00:45:05,230 --> 00:45:02,250
make a documentary examining or

1109
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:05,240
analysing the validity of psychics but

1110
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:07,250
psychics can be worse than

1111
00:45:12,610 --> 00:45:09,930
inconsequential dabblers in serious

1112
00:45:15,110 --> 00:45:12,620
matters they can prove problematic

1113
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:15,120
distractions drawing attention to the

1114
00:45:21,830 --> 00:45:18,390
wrong places or mulling the information

1115
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:21,840
pool so comes almost as a relief that

1116
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:24,000
amid the outpouring of messages of

1117
00:45:29,780 --> 00:45:25,920
support for the family of missing

1118
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:29,790
Jessica boys only about half a dozen

1119
00:45:35,180 --> 00:45:32,970
have been offers of psychic aid there

1120
00:45:37,460 --> 00:45:35,190
are families who have received hundreds

1121
00:45:39,470 --> 00:45:37,470
of these and a further allure

1122
00:45:44,330 --> 00:45:39,480
if their family spokesman has responded

1123
00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:44,340
politely but unenthusiastically perhaps

1124
00:45:50,330 --> 00:45:47,880
significantly these latest voices from

1125
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:50,340
the other side have not been put forward

1126
00:45:54,589 --> 00:45:52,290
by these so-called psychics and

1127
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:54,599
themselves rather it's been the

1128
00:45:58,760 --> 00:45:56,160
good-hearted duffer's who have

1129
00:46:02,210 --> 00:45:58,770
themselves contacted psychics and have

1130
00:46:04,580 --> 00:46:02,220
been passing the messages on people want

1131
00:46:06,770 --> 00:46:04,590
to help and that's good if they want to

1132
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:06,780
engage a psychic then that's their

1133
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:09,210
prerogative for their part the

1134
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:11,609
high-profile members of the psychic

1135
00:46:16,450 --> 00:46:14,400
industry appear hesitant to step forward

1136
00:46:19,970 --> 00:46:16,460
in a way that makes them look like

1137
00:46:22,089 --> 00:46:19,980
grasping opportunists or to use a phrase

1138
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:22,099
the New Zealand skeptics has picked up

1139
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:25,050
quote grief vampires

1140
00:46:31,330 --> 00:46:28,560
men quote it's perhaps worth pointing

1141
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:31,340
out that one medium and psychic surgeon

1142
00:46:37,609 --> 00:46:35,130
Janette Wilson has explained she only

1143
00:46:40,820 --> 00:46:37,619
helps if the family reaches out to her

1144
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:40,830
you don't know what people's beliefs are

1145
00:46:47,839 --> 00:46:45,119
she says and she would never charge them

1146
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:47,849
a fee and would travel at her own

1147
00:46:54,260 --> 00:46:51,690
expense no doubt but it's a parallel

1148
00:46:57,579 --> 00:46:54,270
truth that involvement in high-profile

1149
00:47:00,320 --> 00:46:57,589
cases does in turn increase one's

1150
00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:00,330
professional profile you might say that

1151
00:47:05,780 --> 00:47:02,760
this would dissuade those who weren't

1152
00:47:08,060 --> 00:47:05,790
fully confident of their ability to come

1153
00:47:09,950 --> 00:47:08,070
up with the goods in pretty much the way

1154
00:47:14,329 --> 00:47:09,960
that psychics dealing with police

1155
00:47:16,609 --> 00:47:14,339
searches have reliably failed to do but

1156
00:47:18,829 --> 00:47:16,619
these are often professionals who have

1157
00:47:21,260 --> 00:47:18,839
reason to be mainly concerned about

1158
00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:21,270
their standing among those who are

1159
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:24,300
inclined to be open to their claims

1160
00:47:30,020 --> 00:47:27,690
those who dare to believe rather than

1161
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:30,030
the more skeptical observers and with

1162
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:32,910
more demanding views on what does and

1163
00:47:39,310 --> 00:47:35,760
what doesn't constitute an impressive

1164
00:47:43,609 --> 00:47:39,320
outcome many psychics seem to describe a

1165
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:43,619
sense of closure rather than an actual

1166
00:47:48,260 --> 00:47:45,930
discovery as a result and the late

1167
00:47:51,380 --> 00:47:48,270
British spiritualist Doris Stokes should

1168
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:51,390
remind us albeit from the other side

1169
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:53,610
that some of her ilk might play to make

1170
00:47:56,180 --> 00:47:55,290
claims that don't stand up to close

1171
00:47:58,700 --> 00:47:56,190
scrutiny

1172
00:48:00,500 --> 00:47:58,710
Stokes herself claimed in one of her

1173
00:48:03,890 --> 00:48:00,510
books to have helped police recover the

1174
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:03,900
body of Mona blades way down there in

1175
00:48:09,530 --> 00:48:07,050
New Zealand in which case it was surely

1176
00:48:12,110 --> 00:48:09,540
churlish of our police not to have

1177
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:12,120
recorded this crucial assistance in any

1178
00:48:20,510 --> 00:48:17,730
of their files and that was police

1179
00:48:22,430 --> 00:48:20,520
information an oxymoronic offering for

1180
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:22,440
police searches published of the

1181
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:24,720
Southland Times and I will link to that

1182
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:37,680
in this week's show notes are you tired

1183
00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:39,570
of going out and not being able to find

1184
00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:41,310
the kind of music that you like to dance

1185
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:44,910
to like that well you need to come to

1186
00:48:50,060 --> 00:48:47,010
Maine and slug shack at the red bar

1187
00:48:51,140 --> 00:48:50,070
upstairs at 36 leave Point Road in bleep

1188
00:48:52,550 --> 00:48:51,150
in Sydney

1189
00:48:53,810 --> 00:48:52,560
we'll be going crazy there as I've

1190
00:48:57,650 --> 00:48:53,820
played the kind of music you were to

1191
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:06,300
like this but if you want to you can

1192
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:07,690
always dance the card stuff you like

1193
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:09,010
then in it

1194
00:49:13,410 --> 00:49:11,200
that's main arms Love Shack more details

1195
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:13,420
on the very very front page of main and

1196
00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:16,960
calm dodo you can skeptics dance another

1197
00:49:19,859 --> 00:49:17,710
can drink

1198
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:19,869
well can skeptics dance I don't know I'm

1199
00:49:23,370 --> 00:49:21,010
full of incertitude

1200
00:49:26,339 --> 00:49:23,380
what's that mean did Saunders write that

1201
00:49:29,820 --> 00:49:26,349
in certitude except Holyrood minutes

1202
00:49:31,859 --> 00:49:29,830
Love Shack H midnight 36 upstairs at the

1203
00:49:33,359 --> 00:49:31,869
red bar bleep Point Road and grief see

1204
00:49:38,849 --> 00:49:33,369
you there and look I might even play

1205
00:49:47,260 --> 00:49:38,859
this to my Nance Love Shack sad a 4th of

1206
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:57,190
[Music]

1207
00:50:01,370 --> 00:49:59,630
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1208
00:50:04,849 --> 00:50:01,380
zone it's nice to be back in the skeptic

1209
00:50:08,509 --> 00:50:04,859
zone studios because I can use my proper

1210
00:50:10,910 --> 00:50:08,519
microphones when I'm in the field as it

1211
00:50:14,180 --> 00:50:10,920
were and when I was in California during

1212
00:50:17,660 --> 00:50:14,190
the last month I was more or less using

1213
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:17,670
my eye devices my iPad my iPhone and

1214
00:50:22,759 --> 00:50:19,529
occasionally I would put in a little

1215
00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:22,769
zoom microphone onto the iPhone which

1216
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:24,990
seemed to work quite well but now I'm

1217
00:50:31,339 --> 00:50:27,710
back here in the studio I can use the

1218
00:50:33,769 --> 00:50:31,349
nice Zen Heiser shotgun microphone I do

1219
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:33,779
for voice work and since I'm still

1220
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:36,930
jet-lagged at the time of recording it's

1221
00:50:41,180 --> 00:50:38,400
early in the morning so I don't have to

1222
00:50:43,339 --> 00:50:41,190
worry about planes flying overhead I'm

1223
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:43,349
sure these little details mean a lot to

1224
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:45,510
you great news about one of my favorite

1225
00:50:49,460 --> 00:50:47,130
podcasts the skeptics guide to the

1226
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:49,470
University coming to Melbourne for the

1227
00:50:53,150 --> 00:50:50,880
Australian skeptics National Convention

1228
00:50:54,859 --> 00:50:53,160
later in the year in December can't wait

1229
00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:54,869
to see them always great to catch up

1230
00:50:59,440 --> 00:50:57,599
with SGU and I'm sure the people in

1231
00:51:02,480 --> 00:50:59,450
Melbourne will have some more

1232
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:02,490
announcements and surprises for us over

1233
00:51:08,509 --> 00:51:04,890
the coming months and coming up in a few

1234
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:08,519
days in Canberra the social skeptics of

1235
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:11,130
camera group the Canberra skeptics will

1236
00:51:15,380 --> 00:51:13,920
have a talk about odds and statistics

1237
00:51:18,589 --> 00:51:15,390
and things like that when it comes to

1238
00:51:21,890 --> 00:51:18,599
superstitions and athletes may the odds

1239
00:51:24,170 --> 00:51:21,900
be in your favor superstitions and elite

1240
00:51:26,749 --> 00:51:24,180
athletes an interesting talk which is on

1241
00:51:29,779 --> 00:51:26,759
the 16th of April from 6:00 p.m. to 7:30

1242
00:51:33,380 --> 00:51:29,789
p.m. at the Belconnen community service

1243
00:51:35,410 --> 00:51:33,390
in Belconnen in the ICT and if you want

1244
00:51:38,749 --> 00:51:35,420
to find out more about that talk and

1245
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:38,759
that sense particularly interesting just

1246
00:51:43,039 --> 00:51:40,410
look for the link in this week's show

1247
00:51:45,710 --> 00:51:43,049
notes and an early announcement for

1248
00:51:47,299 --> 00:51:45,720
those people in California or the United

1249
00:51:51,470 --> 00:51:47,309
States so frankly the whole planet

1250
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:51,480
skeptical skeptical is the Northern

1251
00:51:55,849 --> 00:51:53,730
California conference on science and

1252
00:51:57,859 --> 00:51:55,859
skepticism a day-long event with

1253
00:52:00,980 --> 00:51:57,869
speakers and discussions on critical

1254
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:00,990
thinking skeptic al 2019 will be held on

1255
00:52:07,339 --> 00:52:03,920
Sunday June and 9th at the Hyatt Regency

1256
00:52:08,190 --> 00:52:07,349
San Francisco Airport registration is

1257
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:08,200
now open up

1258
00:52:13,349 --> 00:52:10,210
link in the show notes I was there last

1259
00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:13,359
year and what a wonderful day it was it

1260
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:15,430
was in Berkeley last year in fact what's

1261
00:52:19,650 --> 00:52:16,930
the first place I met

1262
00:52:21,810 --> 00:52:19,660
Yvette dumped Raimondi sigh babe what a

1263
00:52:23,819 --> 00:52:21,820
great time we had and I see they've got

1264
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:23,829
a list of speakers lined up already

1265
00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:26,800
including Jim Underdown Mick West who

1266
00:52:31,290 --> 00:52:29,230
wrote the book escaping the rabbit hole

1267
00:52:34,490 --> 00:52:31,300
and many more so I can certainly

1268
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:34,500
recommend if you're in the Bay Area that

1269
00:52:40,290 --> 00:52:38,160
skeptical is the conference for you and

1270
00:52:41,819 --> 00:52:40,300
well who knows there might be an

1271
00:52:45,930 --> 00:52:41,829
appearance by a certain Australian

1272
00:52:49,770 --> 00:52:45,940
podcaster we shall see but for this week

1273
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:49,780
I think I better have some more salad or

1274
00:52:53,550 --> 00:52:51,760
maybe some toast this is Richard

1275
00:52:58,310 --> 00:52:53,560
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1276
00:53:03,770 --> 00:53:00,839
you've been listening to the skeptic

1277
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:03,780
zone podcast please visit our website at

1278
00:53:13,940 --> 00:53:10,450
wwlp.com tax and to access the back

1279
00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:13,950
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1280
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:16,630
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1281
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:19,930
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1282
00:53:23,059 --> 00:53:22,210
facebook page or leave a review on

1283
00:53:25,740 --> 00:53:23,069
itunes

1284
00:53:29,130 --> 00:53:25,750
you can also support the skeptic zone

1285
00:53:31,849 --> 00:53:29,140
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone

1286
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:31,859
podcast is an independent production

1287
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:34,240
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1288
00:53:38,730 --> 00:53:36,400
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1289
00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:38,740
of Australian skeptics or any other

1290
00:53:53,580 --> 00:53:40,510
sceptical organisation

1291
00:53:59,260 --> 00:53:56,350
yes now I'm back at my desk I have

1292
00:54:02,980 --> 00:53:59,270
reached for my blip what is that the

1293
00:54:05,530 --> 00:54:02,990
20-sided d20 normally it's a d-10 we

1294
00:54:07,150 --> 00:54:05,540
play the dice game with for those people

1295
00:54:10,930 --> 00:54:07,160
unfamiliar with this every now and then

1296
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:10,940
I just roll it I can be a six-sided or

1297
00:54:19,150 --> 00:54:13,010
10 side there are three sided sometimes

1298
00:54:23,050 --> 00:54:19,160
it's even a 60 sided today it's 20 and I

1299
00:54:25,420 --> 00:54:23,060
want you to use your oh is a giggle when

1300
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:25,430
I said your psychic powers your powers

1301
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:29,570
of prediction and see if you can match

1302
00:54:36,820 --> 00:54:33,890
my roll of the dice here which occurred

1303
00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:36,830
in the past of course because this is a

1304
00:54:40,650 --> 00:54:39,590
pre-recorded show but you don't know

1305
00:54:43,180 --> 00:54:40,660
what the result is

1306
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:43,190
even though it's happened but that

1307
00:54:50,020 --> 00:54:47,090
hasn't happened for me yet oh you sort

1308
00:54:59,830 --> 00:54:50,030
of hmm I should write a movie about that

1309
00:55:01,360 --> 00:54:59,840
here we go roll number 116 I have to

1310
00:55:02,650 --> 00:55:01,370
write this down because I could turn up

1311
00:55:06,250 --> 00:55:02,660
roll number three and sometimes don't

1312
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:06,260
fit sixteen is that first one okay roll

1313
00:55:10,980 --> 00:55:08,240
number two are you predicting are you

1314
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:10,990
predicting here it comes

1315
00:55:17,470 --> 00:55:16,250
what's that it's a six sixteen six last

1316
00:55:21,900 --> 00:55:17,480
one coming up

1317
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:26,650
thirteen be interesting one day to do a

1318
00:55:33,010 --> 00:55:29,690
sort of a little mind game thought

1319
00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:33,020
experiment to see how easy it is for

1320
00:55:38,350 --> 00:55:35,440
someone like a numerologist to make

1321
00:55:42,670 --> 00:55:38,360
anything out of numbers here we've got

1322
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:42,680
16 6 and 13 where I look to sixes how

1323
00:55:46,690 --> 00:55:44,960
about that and we've got a three and you

1324
00:55:49,570 --> 00:55:46,700
know what two threes are there six I

1325
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,580
mean it all just make sense

1326
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:51,920
hmm and we've got two ones in there

1327
00:56:00,970 --> 00:55:54,290
we've got a one for the 16 one 6 and a 1

1328
00:56:02,870 --> 00:56:00,980
3 for the 13 2 times 1 that's 2 and 2 3